Interview with Jeanne Sonville (Continued from page 7)

Yes. One of the reasons I enjoy working with him is while he believes in chemo-therapy, he believes in it as a therapeutic tool within the context of a constructive counseling situation. Chemo-therapy alone just doesn't make it for either of us. The other reason I find it refreshing to work with him is he uses a multimodality approach and will try anything (e.g., Yoga, hypnosis) that will help meet the patient's needs.

Do you consult with anyone besides Dr. Ardvaryu?

I've consulted with Dr. Alyce Gligor and Dr. Pete Franklin at times, but it's mostly with Dr. A because I'm a psychiatric nurse and theoretically as long as I'm practicing, it needs to be under a psychiatrist.

How do you work with other psychologists, social workers or counselors at the Free Clinic?

It depends on what they and their client want and what the problem is. Sometimes it's just a sharing of information to get my opinion. Sometimes it's just sitting in on a session and giving an evaluation of what I think is wrong.

Do you train counselors?

Yes. I usually have one or two students here who are doing an internship, either from SASS, CSU or Tri-C's mental health program. If I have the patient's permission, we do the whole counseling situation together. I ask that the co-counselor only observe for the first few sessions, and then I ask them for an assessment of the situation.

Since the Free Clinic moved to Euclid Avenue from Cornell, do you see more poor women?

Definitely, especially more poor black women. Many inner city black people seem to accept a state of depression as the way it's supposed to be. They've never really experienced life any other way, but bit by bit, they're becoming more aware. For instance, a woman I saw this afternoon said that 3 years ago she never would have thought of coming to see anybody for her state of mind. She described the way she grew up-it's a house of horrors-raped at the age of 8, orphaned at the age of 10, and out on the street by the time she was 12. Just struggle, struggle, struggle, and I think up until now she accepted it as a way of life. She's been depressed for a long, long time-most of her life. She's 63 now, and some new problems have started to hit her. One day she poured herself a cup of coffee, walked over to the window and decided that the only thing for her to do was go out the window. She said something made her turn. around, and she heard the ad about the Free Clinic on TV, so she came in.

What differences do you see in the situational difficulties between a poor black woman and a poor white woman?

I don't really see many advantages for the poor white woman. Poor is poor. They both have the same type of over-crowding, the same lack of money, and live in lousy environments. But while some of the white women we see have known a better life and have lost it, most of the black women we see never

had anything and never knew anything but being poor.

What changes do you see in the problems of the women you counsel today as opposed to 8 years ago when the Free Clinic opened?

I'm finding more self-awareness. As the level of self-awareness rises, very often some women, especially housewife/mothers, start to feel trapped and want to experience more of themselves. There's more frustration and sometimes depression as a result of that self-awareness. I also see a lot of young women, 17-20 years old, who come in saying, "I'm not going to be trapped like my mother was. I'm not going to live that kind of life.” And that comes from poor white, poor black, working class and middle class women. From what I'm seeing, eventually a majority of women will have a greater sense of awareness and act on it. They'll go out for those things they want, what they feel most comfortable with, and that make them happy. I see them as daring to take greater risks now.

What major changes do you see in the women coming in for.counseling about their sexuality between 8 years ago and now?

I see women being more accepting of themselves and their sexual preferences. For instance, women are not as afraid to "come out of the closet❞ once they've made that decision. Some women that i counsel in the 45-50 range have been lesbians for a long time but will still not come out of the closet. They feel their family and friends do not know they are lesbians or are in relationships with women, and they will not publicly admit it. The younger women who come in today are more willing to deal with that. Society is still hard on homosexuality, but not as hard as it once was. Plus, there are so many people who have "come out" that I think that the people who do, even if they don't belong to a community, know there are a lot more people out there like them, so they're not the enigma they used to be.

How do you work with a person to help them come out?

The first thing I do is some very direct questioning, that hopefully does not make that person defensive. We try to be non-judgmental, so people feel at least a little more relaxed here than they might someplace else. The direct questioning is not an accusation but an acceptance of the fact that "This is who you are, and this is how you feel. Why is it so hard for you to accept this?" Many people who are having sexual identity problems will go through heterosexual experimentation, which is still for them a process of denial. Eventually they may move into a bisexual period, and then finally make their choice and accept the fact that "This is my preference." Some people come out and very defiantly announce and act out their preferences, and other people just start emerging into the particular lifestyle they're most comfortable with.

Do you ever see people who remain bisexual?

BOOS, BRAVOS, AND TIDBITS

BRAVO to the women of Women's International League for Peace and Freedom and various other organizations who met last month to Icarn about and discuss SALT. The two-day conference included briefings sponsored by the State Department and the U.S. Arms Disarmament Agency, followed by sessions devoted to plans for including strategic arms limitation education and activitics in the work of the women's groups.

BOO to the Cleveland Museum of Natural History for circulating the following flier to promote a shop-

Page 12/What She Wants/January, 1979

ping night for men only at the Ark in the Park:

R

Let's say to heck with Women's Lib, And those who rose from Adam's rib, And hie ourselves to the Ark in the Park Just us guys on a shopping lurk, Christmas gifts for wife or "friend, All you need is money to spend, The snacks are free and so is the booze, And ladies fair will help you choose, For two brief hours the Kings will reign, Then back to the Queens and the ball and chain.

Definitely. Sometimes those who are bisexual are more difficult to deal with. I feel being bisexual is as "normal" as anything else, but our society keeps demanding you're "either" "or" and implies that if you're bisexual there's something wrong with you because you're not making up your mind. That's felt by people who are bisexual, and they feel they need to keep half of themselves secret. There's less of a support system out there for the woman who is bisexual.

How do you deal with a situation like that? If bisexuality is what she wants, I try to help her feel comfortable enough with it so she doesn't have to feel defiant, divided, or secretive, but can just live her life and be comfortable with it. I've also had women who have labeled themselves "homosexual" (and that's the only kind of relationship they've had) find themselves becoming sexually attracted to males. Because they've already decided "This is who I am," they get blown away with this attraction to a male.

Are you seeing more people coming here for sexuality problems?

Only in that when they come in now, they are stating "This is my problem''. Before I saw just as many, but when they came in, if that was their problem, either they were unaware of it, or they came in telling me that their problem was something different.

Do you see homosexuality as a problem?

I don't feel that homosexuality is "abnormal", but because of the problems it brings up in a person's life, it becomes a problem to that person. For instance, if you're going to take a position, "This is my sexual preference," and it is of the same sex, it's a big step to risk losing the support of your parents, whom you love dearly, whom you count on for a lot of support, and who have been your emotional support system for most of your life. It's the societal pressure surrounding the decision that creates a problem, rather than the homosexuality.

What's the ultimate satisfaction you receive from counseling someone?

The ultimate satisfaction for me is when I see a person who comes in with a problem, whatever it is, and leaves feeling that particular problem is over with in their life, that they've handled it-and indeed they have.. The thing I fight most is when a person I'm seeing tries to give me the credit. I try to make sure they do not leave until they see that they did the work, that I was there only as a catalyst and part of their support system, but they're capable of taking care of themselves.

What keeps you going?

I think part of it is my own personal growth. In many instances I get as much out of the sessions as some of the people I counsel. I discover things about myself. I think I learn something new here almost every day, and that's exciting to me.

BOO to the U.S. Army, which last month gave its commanders authority to get rid of men and women soldiers, whether married or not, if the responsibilities of caring for their children interfere with their military duties. The policy applies to both sexes, but Army sources indicated the move was triggered largely by concern about pregnancy among women soldiers and follow-up problems of caring for their children. There are an estimated 15,000 "sole parents" in the Army, 4,000 of them women. BRAVO to What She Wants. Hoorah! Hoorah! Hoorah! (Ed. Note: We did not write this.)